Mr.
Prashant Jain, Executive Director & Chief Investment Officer, HDFC Mutual
Fund has collectively over
20 years of experience in fund management and research in mutual fund industry.
He is unarguably one of the best fund managers in the country. While most fund
houses struggled to sell their equity products in recent years, HDFC Mutual
Fund has steadily managed to increase its equity asset base over the past two years.
The latest figures show that HDFC Mutual Fund has retained its top position
with an average AUM of 1,41,000 crore. A Master in Business Administration from
IIM, Bangalore and B.Tech (Mechanical Engg.) IIT, Kanpur, prior to joining HDFC
AMC, he has worked with Zurich AMC and SBI Mutual Fund.
Around
two years ago you had penned a thought-provoking piece titled 'It's tomorrow
that matters.' Has that tomorrow come? What is your outlook for the coming
tomorrows?
I think the "tomorrow" that was referred to in the article dated May
24, 2012 has come.
The
table below summarizes the key parameters then and now.
|
Then FY12
|
Now FY14
|
Remarks
|
|
CAD (% of GDP)
|
4.2
|
1.9
|
CAD has improved sharply
since then
|
|
FD (% of GDP)
|
5.7
|
4.1
|
FD has come down & should come down further over time
|
|
WPI (Average)
|
8.8
|
5.5
|
WPI fell to 5 year low in August
|
|
CAD: Current
Account Deficit, FD: Fiscal Deficit, WPI: Wholesale
Price Inflation
|
|
2012A
|
2014E
|
Remarks
|
|
Euro area GDP (% growth)
|
(0.6)
|
1.0
|
From crisis, Europe has since moved to stability
|
|
Then May 12
|
Now Sep 14
|
Remarks
|
|
Gold Price in USD (t/z)
|
1,561
|
1,208
|
Gold prices are down ~22% in
USD terms
|
|
Gold Price in`(MCX-10g)
|
29,183
|
26,772
|
Despite higher customs duty
& INR Depreciation, gold prices are down ~8% in India
|
|
SENSEX Index Level
|
16,219
|
26,630
|
SENSEX is up ~64%
|
|
Roll P/E - 1Yr forward
|
13.0
|
15.6
|
|
Source: Bloomberg, CLSA, Citi and BAML research,
Data updated till 30th September, 2014, E - Estimated
From the above, it is clear that fundamentals have improved both globally and
locally between 2012 at the time of the European crisis and now. Panic and
pessimism of 2012 has since been replaced by rising confidence and optimism for
the future. The key message of the note - that the best investments are
made in tough times - though greeted by skepticism then, has been largely
vindicated. (The Sensex is up 64% since the note dated May 24, 2012).
Looking at the future, I think another, equally promising, "tomorrow" beckons.
The worst on the economic front in India is clearly behind us - GDP growth is
improving, current account deficit (CAD) has narrowed sharply, fiscal deficit
(FD) is slowly but surely moderating, inflation is steadily coming down with
visible moderation in key constituents i.e. food and fuel. Lower interest rates
are thus a natural corollary over time.
A strong, growth
oriented and business friendly government bodes well for economic growth and
for businesses.
Given the likely recovery in the capex cycle, over the next few years India's
growth rates should exceed China's in my opinion. By the turn of the decade,
India should thus emerge as not only one of the largest but the fastest growing
economy as well.
Current
P/E multiples of equity markets are reasonable - neither expensive, nor cheap. However, corporate
earnings should be better than estimates as corporate margins are significantly
below the long term averages and should improve as capacity utilization and
business conditions improve. There is thus room for multiples to expand as
growth improves and as interest rates move lower besides strong earnings
growth.
With
markets at new highs, a new government in place and P/Es at moderate levels,
has your outlook for the Indian equity markets changed?
A popular observation about the markets is that the markets have run up nearly
40% in last one year! A more pertinent observation is that the markets are up
only around 30% from the pre Lehman levels over the last 6 years! Markets have thus sharply underperformed
nominal GDP growth over the last six years, in spite of the sharp move in
recent months.
As mentioned earlier, P/Es are still reasonable; there is room for P/Es to move
higher over time as growth picks up, as corporate margins normalize from
depressed levels and as interest rates move lower. Most importantly,
the growth prospects for the Indian economy are now very encouraging. Imagine what growth India can deliver
in a good environment when it has grown at nearly 5% in a year as challenging
as the last year!
Should
investors dabble directly in stocks or stick to quality mutual funds?
If an investor has good understanding, he or she may go in for direct equities.
In my experience, however, the vast majority of direct investors have not done
well - the most popular stocks in 1992 were in cement; in 1999 it was the turn
of IT/ TMT / ICE stocks; in 2007 it was the turn on the infrastructure related
stocks, and in last few years it is the FMCG stocks that have become most
popular. While it is too early to judge the outcome of popularity of FMCG stocks,
the popular direct investments in earlier cycles have not been successful for
the majority.
On the contrary, a majority of mutual fund schemes have outperformed indices
over the medium to long periods of time and have thus added significant value.
The table below makes an interesting reading. As on 30th August, 2014, between
80-90% of equity funds' assets have outperformed their respective benchmarks.
|
3 Years
|
5 Years
|
10 Years
|
|
% of AUM Outperforming
Benchmark
|
82%
|
93%
|
93%
|
|
% of Schemes Outperforming
Benchmark
|
67%
|
75%
|
64%
|
Source: NAV India, Data as on 30th August, 2014,
Internal Calculations
Are
big schemes are better than smaller ones?
It is also interesting to observe from the above table that the percentage of
AUM outperforming their benchmarks is significantly higher than percentage of
schemes outperforming their benchmarks. This implies that larger schemes have
done better compared to smaller schemes.
There have been many who have repeatedly suggested that large mutual fund
schemes are constrained by size and underperform their smaller counterparts.
The data above clearly shows that on the contrary, bigger schemes have done
better.
The reasons for this are fairly simple. As I have often said in the past
all mutual fund schemes are tiny in India. Infact, HDFC Equity Fund, the
largest equity scheme,with ~`16,000 crs AUM is only 0.17% of market
capitalization. True, it is large compared to other schemes, but it is small
relative to market. Size is thus not a constraint. Besides, larger schemes are
more likely to be managed by more experienced managers. And finally, larger
schemes have lower expenses!
Brief
us about the performance of some of your funds and your AUM.
HDFC Mutual Fund is
the largest mutual fund in India - overall, and more importantly in equities.
While this represents the support and faith of millions in brand
"HDFC" and in our capabilities, what is most satisfying is that our
funds have been able to add considerable value and have done significantly better
than both the benchmarks and competing funds over the medium to long term.
Given below is the track record of five of our largest Equity / Balanced Funds
vs. the benchmarks over the medium to long term.
HDFC
Fund vs Benchmarks
|
|
Return CAGR (%)
|
|
Start Date
|
AUM inRs. crs. Aug 2014
|
1
year
|
3
years
|
5
years
|
Since Inception
|
Rs. 10,000 Invested at Inception has
become Rs.
|
|
HDFC Equity Fund - (G)
|
Jan 95
|
15,813
|
73.2
|
21.7
|
15.9
|
21.2
|
443,050
|
|
CNX 500
|
|
|
46.1
|
17.3
|
9.3
|
9.8
|
64,157
|
|
Excess Returns
|
|
|
27.1
|
4.5
|
6.6
|
11.3
|
|
|
HDFC Top 200 fund (G)
|
Oct 96
|
12,905
|
60.0
|
19.9
|
13.5
|
22.7
|
323,285
|
|
BSE 200
|
|
|
42.5
|
17.0
|
9.2
|
13.0
|
89,770
|
|
Excess Returns
|
|
|
17.5
|
2.9
|
4.3
|
9.7
|
|
|
HDFC Mid-Cap Opp.
|
Jan 07
|
6,862
|
91.4
|
28.2
|
23.5
|
17.3
|
31,880
|
|
CNX Midcap
|
|
|
63.2
|
17.2
|
11.2
|
9.7
|
19,595
|
|
Excess Returns
|
|
|
28.3
|
11.0
|
12.3
|
|
|
|
HDFC Prudence
|
Feb 94
|
6,846
|
68.2
|
20.1
|
16.8
|
20.3
|
453,584
|
|
CRISIL Balanced
|
|
|
27.4
|
13.9
|
9.1
|
NA
|
NA
|
|
Excess Returns
|
|
|
40.8
|
6.2
|
7.7
|
|
|
|
HDFC Tax Saver Fund
|
Mar 96
|
4,670
|
70.2
|
21.1
|
15.1
|
27.8
|
933,774
|
|
CNX 500
|
|
|
46.1
|
17.3
|
9.3
|
12.7
|
91,636
|
|
Excess Returns
|
|
|
24.1
|
3.8
|
5.8
|
15.1
|
|
(Returns as on 30th September, 2014), Source:
NAV India, Internal Calculations
Past performance may
or may not be sustained in the future
What is noteworthy is that each of these funds has generated sizable
excess returns over their respective benchmarks across different time periods.
The effect of 5-14% CAGR excess returns over long periods is dramatic:
|
HDFC TAX Saver:
|
Rs. 10,000 invested at inception is ~Rs. 934,000 in less
than 19 years at CAGR# of ~28%, 93 times
|
|
HDFC Prudence:
|
Rs. 10,000 invested at inception is ~Rs. 4,54,000 in
little over 20years at CAGR# of ~20%, 45 times
|
|
HDFC Equity Fund:
|
Rs. 10,000 invested at inception is ~Rs. 4,43,000 in less
than 20 years at CAGR# of ~21%, 44 times
|
|
BSE SENSEX:
|
Rs. 10,000 during the same time is only ~Rs. 67,000 in
little over 20years at CAGR# of ~10%,6.7 times
|
Source: Bloomberg, Internal calculations,
Reference made to SENSEX is only for easy understanding of market movement.
# Past performance may or may not be sustained in the future
This represents possibly the best value addition across mutual fund
schemes over long periods and across several market cycles in India. This is a
result of a long term, disciplined approach to investing and a very talented,
experienced and dedicated team at HDFC Mutual Fund. It will be our endeavor to
further build on this solid foundation.
The fact that these
schemes are some of the largest schemes in the industry, once again suggests
that size is not a constraining factor for performance.
You
often advocate low P/E investing. What would your advice be to retail
investors?
My advice to investors is very simple and has stayed the same for a long time.
Equities are a great compounding machine (Sensex itself is up 270 times since
1979) and India had and has great growth prospects. To benefit from this, an
investor should assess and allocate one's risk capital (that portion of capital
which can be kept aside for few years and on which volatility can be tolerated)
to equities.
Asset
Allocation is the key to successful investing and surprisingly it is also the
most neglected, as most of the attention is focused on timing, security
selection, moving across funds etc.
Studies have suggested that in investing, up to 90% of returns and wealth over
long periods are driven by asset allocation only and not by security selection
or timing.
After asset allocation, all that an investor needs is patience and
discipline: Patience
to remain invested for long periods in equities / equity mutual funds to allow
compounding to work and the discipline of not panicking and on the contrary
increasing allocation to equities when the returns over the past few years have
been disappointing or in simple words when the P/Es are low (practice low P/E
investing).
The data below pertaining to two of our long running funds highlights the low
holding periods of mutual funds in general by the majority.
|
AUM holding for more than
|
|
Scheme
|
3years
|
5years
|
10 years
|
|
HDFC Prudence Fund:
|
52%
|
23%
|
3%
|
|
HDFC Equity Fund
|
34%
|
15%
|
2%
|
Source: HDFC Mutual Fund, Data as on 31st August,
2014
The data on above suggests:
|
Only ~2-3% of assets in equity funds are held for more than 10 years
|
|
Only ~15-25% of assets in equity funds are held for more than 5 years
|
|
Only ~30-50% of assets in equity funds are held for more than 3 years
|
Short
holding periods of mutual funds dilute the potential of equities: As was highlighted in the answer to the
previous question, compounding over long periods multiplies wealth manifold.
Investors with short holding periods clearly do not benefit from this. That is
why it is often said that "Time spent in markets is more important than
timing the markets".
You
had mentioned in your 2012 note, how Gold prices were high in real terms
similar to 1980 levels or so. Could you explain the same and your view on Gold
now?
The nature of gold is such that it tends to preserve the purchasing power in
real terms (this implies that gold returns are nearly equal to inflation) over
very long periods. If holding gold for longer periods could increase purchasing
power, then India should have been much richer by now.
There is one more characteristic of gold - it tends to do very well in times of
heightened uncertainty, crisis like situations, when interest rates are very
low etc. Though gold tends to give outsized returns (and delivers significant
real returns) around such times, these are typically followed by long periods
of underperformance till the real returns wither away.
The following chart gives the real price (adjusted for inflation) price of gold
in USD terms.

It can be observed
that Gold prices went up sharply in real terms around 1980 and again post 2008.
The time around 1980 was characterized by a rapid rise in oil prices (from ~USD
14/bbl in 1978 to ~USD 36/bbl in 1981 (Source: BP)), high inflation, Soviet
intervention in Afghanistan as well as the impact of the Iranian revolution.
Post 2008, the Lehman crisis led to a sharp decline in interest rates and
excessive money supply (QE). Gold did very well on both these occasions.
The fact that gold had created
uncharacteristically high real wealth between 2008 and 2012, and the
expectation that the environment would eventually improve, had prompted me to
suggest a negative outlook for gold in 2012 in the note referred to earlier.
As the global economy returns to normalcy, as interest rates expectations /
interest rates change, charm of gold should continue to recede. As the above
chart suggests, gold prices are still high in real terms despite the
correction. Moreover, Indian gold prices are supported by high customs duty
which should normalize over time making gold even less attractive.
How
would you compare FDs vs. Gold vs. Equities
The following table gives the returns on CAGR basis and the risk as measured by
Standard Deviation over 1, 3 and 5 years holding periods of Sensex, 1 year SBI
Fixed Deposit (FD) and Gold in INR terms for the last 30 years:
|
in last 30years
|
SENSEX
|
FD @ SBI
|
GOLD
|
|
CAGR (%)
|
16%
|
9%
|
10%
|
|
Rs. 10,000 has become
|
9,12,496
|
1,22,434
|
1,84,990
|
|
Standard Deviation 1 yr
period
|
58
|
2
|
14
|
|
Standard Deviation 3 yr
period
|
22
|
2
|
8
|
|
Standard Deviation 5 yr
period
|
15
|
2
|
7
|
Source: Bloomberg, 1 year FD rate has been
taken for computation of FD returns; Data pertains from Mar 84 to Mar 14
A careful reading of
the above highlights the shortcomings of gold as an investment compared to both
FDs and Equities.
FDs
vs Gold
While long term returns on gold are comparable to long term returns on FDs,
volatility of gold returns is much higher. Gold is thus inferior to FDs for
short to medium term or low risk investments in my opinion.
Equities
vs Gold
While long term returns on equities are much higher than returns on gold
(appreciation in Sensex was 5x of gold*), volatility of equity returns is
higher to a lesser extent (3x over 3 year holding periods and 2x over 5 year
holding periods). Equities are therefore a superior asset class compared to
gold for long term investments and for those with tolerance to volatility in my
opinion.
The
number of Equity / Balanced mutual fund schemes is more than 400
and continues to rise. How does an investor choose the right scheme?
John
C Bogle, founder of the
Vanguard group has suggested in his book "Common Sense on Mutual Funds" that three to five mutual fund schemes that
have done well across market cycles are all that an investor needs for one's
equity portfolio.
Unfortunately, as the table in response to an earlier question suggests, a
majority of investors in mutual fund schemes have low holding periods and tend
to jump from one fund to another chasing short term performance. This approach
is likely to be both counterproductive and expensive. The table below ranks the
calendar year performance of the ten largest Equity / Balanced Funds for last
10 years (each color/alphabet represents a scheme).
It can be clearly observed that there are no funds that have been consistently
on the top. To take an analogy from the game of cricket, the best batsman is
not the one who scored the highest in the last game but is the one who has the
best batting average in say, last 10 or 20 matches. Just as one match cannot be
used to judge a good batsman, similarly one year's performance is too short a
time to judge equity funds. Instead, there is merit in assessing equity funds'
over 3-5 year periods (infact ideally over a market cycle that is typically 6-8
years).
Funds that have a good track record across market cycles are likely to be
investors best bets and 3-5 such funds is all that an investor needs in my
opinion from the 400 or so schemes.
Past performance may or may not be sustained in the future.
Souce: An interview published in IIFL IQ | Vol 1, Issue 4